When Tupac’s Mom Answers The Door

BEAT DOWN INTERVIEW

My rare 1992 interview with the late Tupac Amaru Shakur: his Black Panther Party legacy, police brutality and early hip-hop.

“I grew up in the Black Panthers but in my teenage years I grew up around hustlers. So this is my way of telling their story while also letting my mother know that I understand where I came from.” — Tupac, 1992

Sometime in the spring of 1992, I knocked on the door of a hotel room in midtown Manhattan. Afeni Shakur, mother of Tupac, a former leader of the New York chapter of the Black Panthers, and a powerhouse in her own right, answered, a smile on her face.

“You must be here to interview my son. I’m going to sit here on the side while you guys talk. That ok?”

Um, sure that’s fine. I was a young 19-year old writer, a huge hip-hop fan and this was one of my first assignments, for a small indie magazine (actually it was a newspaper but anyways..) called Beat Down. I was surprised that Afeni wanted to sit in but thought it was awesome given that I was a fan of her thinking and legacy (RIP, today is her birthday) and she was of course a huge inspiration to her son.

Afeni and Tupac sat side by side on the edge of the bed while I pressed the record button on my trusty tape recorder. With the occasional side-eye from mom, Tupac spoke about his just released debut album 2Pacalypse Now, police brutality, his Black Panther legacy and so much more. (“Don’t be fooled into thinking that Tupac Amaru Shakur whose last name means ‘one who struggles’ is just another flash in the wrap skillet artist.”, I wrote in the intro).

What follows is the never before published online interview from that day….

What would you say is the biggest misconception about Tupac?

That I’m a racist, and angry gun toting racist. I tend to talk about fighting back a lot, no talking and no negotiation. Just fight back. That’s my motto and I don’t hold my tongue. If I want to say ‘fuck the police’ then ‘’fuck the police’ shall be said. I don’t just say ‘niggas shoot niggas’ ’ because that’s not what I’m all about. They cant put me in the poison pack and they know it. I believe that there are misconceptions about people in general that need to be dealt with.

How did you get started and who were your mentors?

I always looked up to revolutionaries like Fred Hampton and Bobby Hutton from the Black Panthers. They weren’t saying or striving for anything much different from what we are saying and striving for today. They died for that. Right in their own beds. They were so young and how could you forget that? How could our country cover that up with Saint patties day parade or Fourth of July celebration? Besides that, I always liked artists such as Tracy Chapman, the last poets, Bob Marley and Sting.

How did you hook up with Digital Underground and what was your role in it?

Well, we already had the comedian, Freaky Deaky and Technical but there were no young niggas. That’s where I came in: right off the streets. I was the rebel. Shock G had the understanding and patience to put up with me. He was also the one who gave me the title for my album.

I know that you’re from Oakland, what is Oakland hip-hop scene like?

The clubs are movin’. There’s a lot of Bay Area rap and everyone seems to be really interested. I guess you could relate to one wrap was just starting out in the Bronx and things are evolving, changing and being created.

Do you find it more difficult to perform for one audience as opposed to another? Is a New York audience more demanding than an Oakland audience?

When I come to New York, it’s hip-hop lessons all around. And then I get home to Oakland and they’re like what are you doing, slow that shit down!. So it keeps the Gemini in me busy. All audiences are demanding so you always got to do your best and keep the crowd going. When I’m in Oakland, I could go freestyle and you can say anything in Oakland as long as you are real. In New York, there are so many good rappers and performers that you have to stand on one toenail, put your hand in the air, balance three barbells and then rap.

Tell me about the Underground Railroad.

The underground railroad is a group of artists, which includes Big D the Impossible, Shock G, PeeWee, Raw Fusion and Live Squad. But it’s designed to be a network and not limit anyone. It’s for the people. That’s my PA-C: the masses. Everywhere I go if someone says yo I want to talk to you about the underground railroad, I’ll listen to what they got to say and if what they say is real, if it’s true and if they’re really trying to help our people unite then I’m with it. But if they’re like yo I got a demo I want you to listen to then that’s not what I’m here for. My main objective is to form a network where I could go to every ghetto in America and have connections there so we could see that there is more of a systemic oppression as opposed to just seeing Rodney King getting his brains beat out.

Have you been faced by any opposition to this concept?

Funny thing is, no I haven’t. I noticed that certain interviewers and radio or TV stations don’t want to talk about it and those are the ones that I know aren’t with it. Because how can you not talk about something as important as uniting our people? Instead, they want me to talk about whether or not I like Heavy D or getting me to dis hammer. In that respect, I guess I get a little opposition, but everyone knows you cannot stop the moving train. And that’s the underground railroad. We are this country is karma and it’s not a color thing, it’s a soul thing.

How did you get involved with the movie Juice?

Money B from digital underground had an audition and I went with him. I walked in, read, and got the role of Bishop. I was just at the right place at the right time.

Do you identify with Bishop?

I think any young black man in America can identify with that shit. He came from a broken home where his role models were street people and dope dealers. That’s who a lot of kids are following today unfortunately, not Hammer or Fresh Prince. There’s a whole section of kids that are relating to them. And it’s tragic to leave those kids out.

It’s our job as human beings to motivate, create, and build. It doesn’t matter who, what, where, when, we can all work together. However, common sense will show that if you have black skin and your brother has black skin you don’t go and shoot ’em.

Common sense will also show that you should help your brother before you help a stranger in the street and that’s not racism because every group of people has different problems. After my minorities are able to deal with their individual problems then will be able to come together as a human race to deal with the ozone layer, disease etc. For example, a ghetto kid and Chicago might have the cure for cancer in a fire system wasn’t so stingy that kid could be given knowledge to come up with that cure. We can’t just sit around and say ‘ we are the world, we are brothers and sisters’ because you can’t kick your brother in a ditch and then say ‘ oh well I’m sorry.’

If we were united — if Bed Stuy I could call up Watts- we wouldn’t be getting beat down in the streets by cops. If we were united, we could run our communities. If the White House can pick up the phone and call Russia, why can’t get those communicate that way?

Where does the rapper enter into all of this? Are you obligated to be a role model, especially since you personally just sending from people directly involved with the Black Panther Party?

That’s where we always screw up by calling rappers role models. Because no one is perfect. If you say that I’m a role model and I choose to smoke a blunt, that makes it so kids are obligated to do it. Everyone is able to see wrong for themselves. You do what you do and I do what I do. How am I wrong for living my life?

In your song ‘Soulja’s Story’, you change the role of George Jackson from the jail Black Panther whose little brother attempts to free him and was killed in the process to a jail don’t dealer his little brother does the same. How does that reflect on the status of the community?

Well, it’s important to make people relate. If you tell a brother ‘ this one Panther tried to break this other Panther out of jail, they’re going to see a panther but if you say ‘ this hustler went to jail and his little brother came to break him out, it’s like ‘oh man what if I went to jail and my little brother came to break me out?’ I grew up in the panthers but in my teenage years I grew up around hustlers. So this is my way of telling their story while also letting my mother know that I understand where I came from.

Also when your song ‘Something Wicked’ you don’t use any samples. How was this important for rap music? Does it prove something seeing as were rap music has often been criticized for being on original because of sampling?

This is a new era. I’ve seen people in the street make beats on records that you would never think of listening to. We bring music together proving that it’s universal. Name any music that has done that? Country, pop, classical? No. Only rap has done that and no one can front on that. Sampling is not rap but it does add to it. It’s like doing a concert with no speakers and no Mike. It can be done but we want to make it good and that’s what life is all about: to improve.

What about rap and commercialism?

It’s a hoe house. You have to sell yourself every day but the key is to turn yourself into a pimp. Take the money you make and build. Because then the people you bring up will get paid. Look at Russell Simmons, John Singleton, Eric Sadler — they’ve got the whole country on their dick.

I hear you’ve got a lawsuit in progress. What’s that all about?

Yeah, against the Oakland Police Department. I was jaywalking and they stop me, sweatin’ me over my name. I was like ‘fuck this’ so they lay their hands on me. This is just like being lynched. Cops can’t be beating the shit out of you and then take you to jail for it. It’s 1992 and the young black man is an endangered species. And it’s so sad because Rodney King is getting his ass kicked well America is partying. There is no more fear of a black planet. The King incident was on tape and they’re still in trial. Mike Tyson is accused of raping a girl and he’s already in jail because America loves that kind of thing. I can’t settle for just being paid because even paid I still have problems. Fuck 40 acres, I want the block, the community to be united.

Would you ever do a St. Ides commercial?

I don’t want people to relate to my faults. Right now I have a gift were people can identify with what I say. Maybe in 10 years I won’t have anything better to say but for now I do.

Is there anything I have an asked you that you would like to share with our readers?

I want niggas to count. Whenever they watch TV, listen to the radio or go to other cities count all niggas. We all have to be cool with each other because strength is in the numbers. Stop the violence at these hip-hop shows because Officer friendly is not standing on the corner to protect us. We must be united and see that we are our own commodity. Source: Meduim.com